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Comment by Robert Edward Fahey on January 3, 2012 at 11:53am

I wouldn't know: I was born deaf. - But this is the sort of thing that I wouldn't want to enter into if it's just like everyone else's critique group. Wide open critiquing circles where everyone comments on everything hasn't worked for me so far. Your idea that we choose a partner relevant to our shared needs, experience, and quality / qualities would be great, but the other we could find pretty much anywhere. I would love to find a high quality critiquing circle that one had to apply for, submit samples, and be accepted into. SheWrites is the highest caliber I have found so far, but the critiquing circles appear to be wide open. I'm fine with this new concept of yours not quite gelling if the only way to birth it is to set it up so it allows for a circle of folks who can whip out six vampire books every year critiquing layered, psychospiritual, metaphorical literary fiction that takes years to polish.

But you have planted the seeds, and this is a good thing. Your ideas will lead somewhere, I am sure.

Comment by sara selznick on January 3, 2012 at 8:27am

Hi,

Robert, the silence was deafening. I think we have to put this idea on hold.

Comment by Robert Edward Fahey on December 29, 2011 at 12:41pm

Sounds like we may have something started here if others start joining in the discussion. - Do you need to have someone read the whole book? Sounds by this description like you might.

Comment by sara selznick on December 28, 2011 at 8:54pm

Dear Robert Edward Fahey,

I am writing what my critique group calls a literary epic. It interweaves past and present to tell of the inhabitants of one near- mansion of Los Angeles over 100 years, highlighting parallels in Black and Jewish history--from pogroms and "passing" to survive, to "good" hair and "bad" noses.

I've been working on it for almost six years, between 2 moves and 2 kids.

I care most about structure. I need to make sure that the overall structure carries through without confusion, that the storylines balance, that each scene has an arc, pulling it forward, and the novel as a whole has its own arc, pulling us onward, too, a "what happens next" as well as a "how will this all fit together. At this point, word choices would not matter much, since I might have to hack huge chunks of perfect words anyway.

I would think my strengths are also about structure. What is the story? Whose story is it? What makes us care about it? How can it best be told? Character, dialogue, plot, background, description, those are all tools to use as we figure out the story that is coming to us.

I'm well on the way here. I know what this story is. I hope I have one last pass through, to develop one more section of it, and to stick pleats through another and take it in a little.

Sara

Comment by Robert Edward Fahey on December 28, 2011 at 12:49pm

Oops - Here ya go:

It was a dense, moldering night, smelling of damp old basements and times best left unstirred. All those long dark hours, grief-strewn winds wailed through the trees. Calling like tender misplaced memories. Moaning, “Vrrommm … Mrroammm …” Not just lamenting, but beckoning. I took it in as someone crying out for me to “Comme … hommme…”

But I had no home. Homes were filled with loss and I’d had enough of that. I’d squandered my childhood locked up inside, catching glimpses of life and the world only through windows and books, as my parents had waited for my heart to finish me off. Then death had taken them first. I’d spent my few adult years running away from any threat of settling down, refusing to take in any more grief, but felt it following as I’d fled.

I’d gone out into the world, intricately lacing distractions and busywork around the long-gnawing emptiness, only to find I’d merely embellished rather than hidden it. I’d buried death under deep mounds of chitchat, but still heard it rustling in there.

This troubled old cabin with its veiled history had called to me from so far away then. But even here I was infested with the roving misery of spirits who would never touch their loved ones again. Maybe especially here. I couldn’t heal their wounds, couldn’t even pat them reassuringly; but would not be just one more who’d turned away.

It all felt so hauntingly personal. We were all lost spirits, neighbors in need, afraid to knock, lingering just along the fuzzy edges of each other’s most intimate buried memories.

On through those long hours, my heart shredded by the winds, I stayed up; unpacking, writing by moody, tossing candlelight, or stalling out to listen in on the sorrow. Letting it soak through me, draw me into its churning, writhing bosom.

Darkness crept through. Shadows pried at doors, teased dull edges of recollections that never quite took hold. Memories that would have shriveled under the blinding sun of daylight and reason. I’d tried living with people. Hadn’t been much good at it. Alone in these mountains, spirits drew in around me. Long-silenced voices careened through barren stars. I clawed for answers to questions I didn’t know how to ask. I couldn’t let go, the night couldn’t either, and someone out there knew it.

Someone or some thing clawed back.

Comment by Robert Edward Fahey on December 28, 2011 at 12:48pm

Great ideas! How about, if we're seeking specific partners, we include a couple of paragraphs indicative of our styles in the "application?"

Now, me; I catch subtleties in wording, particularly areas where verbs could be stronger, or don't match the mood of the scene. I can help develop characters, but do not in any way want to interfere with a writer's own essence and approach.

I write character-driven novels, then put them away for a year, tear them apart, and start over. I am at that place now with "The Mourning After," a book I "finished" more than a year ago and then shelved. It is the story of a frail, home=schooled, nine-year-old boy in the 1950's. He has imaginary playmates from the American civil war. His 1st friend is a strange little girl who "remembers" some of their names.

He grows up without her, then slowly figures out they've a long cycle of marrying only to have him die young. He dies as he's looking for her.

She figures out the same thing, but decides to break the cycle by joining him in death. From the other side he must stop her.

My characters are much more casually real than this sequence would seem to indicate, but the book opens on a really somber scene, and maybe even distant shades of Poe:

Well - so much for that idea - I can't seem to paste into this window.

Comment by sara selznick on December 28, 2011 at 12:07pm

Dear Gang,

We are interested in facilitating a reader exchange in literary fiction. We suggest a kind of shoppers market where we'd say what we are writing, how we tend to critique, strengths and weaknesses, what we are looking for in a critique, our timeline, etc. this does not need to be a page to page fair exchange, as some people will be I earlier drafts that require more retreading, etc, but each member of a pair will be honor bound to do their best not to take adavantage of a partner. As in life, there is no guarantee we will be able to find a good match but at least we can try.

If there are folks working on, say, rewriting one chapter for umpty drafts, we could perhaps also make some reading circles, so someone could edit and then shoot it out for a fresh read.

My rules would say also if the partnership is not being productive for one member, they could withdraw without penalty. Life happens. We all know that.

If there are suggestions for other rules, please holler.

Sara

Comment by Robert Edward Fahey on December 28, 2011 at 10:57am

We might also want to suggest what we at least THINK we are mainly looking for in critiques of our works. Some may be looking for grammatical flaws, while others want more to know if their characters are real, or the emotions flow smoothly.

Comment by Robert Edward Fahey on December 28, 2011 at 10:55am

Make it so, number one!

Comment by sara selznick on December 28, 2011 at 10:47am

Dear Robert et all.

The usual deal is something where you have to read three chapters to get one critiqued. I don't find that works. You get the semicolon school of critique, and the, "that character said Nigger!" school of critique (um, historical novel. They did use those words, re-editing of Huck Finn not withstanding.)nd a lot of people won't "get" the work at all.

However, on one such exchange, after lots of well-intentioned line edits, I found a delightful reader. I thought I was almost done (well, I sort of am, sigh.) She is working on a lovely piece, much more in the creating stages, and I seem to be able to suggest the right additions to what was a brilliantly conceptualizer sketch, plus she turns around shoots back brilliant additions.

Therefore, I think we'd be better off sorting out who's writing what and who critiques in what style and who has how much time and reads fast or slowly, and try to coordinate direct exchanges.

Maybe we could post synopsis, thinking/critiquing style, first pages, and what we think we need. We'd have to understand that, as with dating, not everyone will find a perfect mate, but we might stand a better shot than asking everyone we meet, which is what I've been doing.

Sara

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