Thanks, Dera.  A few months ago, I got a notion that I might like to be an English professor, so investigated what went into that. It was a shock to learn how dire the prospects are (and have been for years) for graduates of MFA progams. Thank you for the encouragement about my writing and goals. I have to write, period. Alot of the (self-promotional) activity here at She Writes discourages more than encourages me. If publication is someone's top writing goal, will they stop writing once they get one book published?

Now that I reread what he says in part of his discussion of this, it seems that the intensity of the atmosphere (of a writing workshop) is one of the main factors. People eating, drinking, talking writing. Like you say, "mixing with other writers." He never says, "You can't be a writer if you don't study it in college", but instead has the idea that your characters and plots will be limited to the familiar sights around you.

I can see that might be a problem if someone lives in one place his whole life, and never meets people different from himself. I can agree with this somewhat. Anyone who isn't exposed to new ideas and cultures will have a tougher time becoming a good fiction writer.

The critic, whose name was John Gardner, mentioned older writers who didn't attend college yet became greats. He says that in earlier times, writers were considered folk heroes. So they didn't need as wide of a view of life as modern writers do. I might be paraphrasing that wrong, but he did touch on that point.

 

 

 

Rebecca, I'm not sure what you mean by go to school. I think writers have to study the craft through various classes, workshops or writing groups. I don't feel a MFA in writing is needed in order to write. I think you need to evaluate your writing and goals and decide for yourself, but you should continue writing no matter what anyone says. Just my two cents.

For what does your critic argue a writer needs to go to school? 'Need' seems quite a strong word, is s/he arguing that one cannot be a writer at all without going to school? I went to school, my tutors were like guides who helped me negotiate the terrain, and I'm very grateful to them. I loved the course, and I learnt a lot, but I'm not sure I wouldn't have learnt it by just mixing with other writers and reading, reading, reading as you are now doing. It may have taken longer for me to understand my own reasons for writing if I hadn't gone, and longer for me to have discovered the books and writers that help feed my work, but it seems to me that the only things a writer needs to do to be a writer is write and read. As far as I know Checkhov didn't go to school, or he did but it was medical school.

My new first step has been reading, reading, reading. Literary criticism, biographies, short stories, novels. It's really opening my eyes to what's possible. I don't have a B.A., so must have missed out on this kind of foundation.

But something bothers me. The very literary critic who's led me to this treasure trove of work (Chekhov, Oates, Malamud, etc.) also insists that a writer needs to go to school. I know it's a cliche question, but this is the first time I've been torn on the subject.

LOL @ the word panster!  That's awesome.  I'm also realizing, I am one.  I get a great beginning in my head or a great ending, and just start writing: chapter 1.  Ok.  Here's what happens.  Then I write about six chapters I love.  Then I write a few chapters I'm not crazy about.  Then I confuse myself.  Then I confuse my readers.  Then my whole panst-ing way of writing utterly bites me in the ass as I go, oh, wait, I should have said this back in chapter two.  But now if I go back to chapter 2, I have to change the whole story through chapter 23.  Oh bummer.  And the pantsting starts all over again. 

This actually worked with my first book.  I ended up with something that still needs some editing (it's currently on the shelf waiting for my second book, because I want the second book to come first...)  But the basic story is SO THERE!  Woohoo!

But now I'm in pansting Hell on the second book, the one that needs to come first before the first book.  Argh.  I've just re-written the whole thing for about the zillionth time.  AAAARRRGH!  But I think, slowly but surely, I'm making progress.  God, please, let me be making progress!!!!  Then, let me "plot" rather than "pants."  And alas, let me finish a book I'm happy with.  Then, I'll come back here and go, "I totally meant to do that."

 

Like Jen, I'm a pantser (though I've only just now heard of this term). I always thought I was a crazy, disorganized person but now I'm realizing that it's perfectly common to work this way.

 

Depending on what I'm writing, I typically sit down to work at my computer and play around with my words and sentences until I get somewhere. I'll write and write until I get stuck and then try to take a break to work through it.

 

However, I'm working on a memoir and it's been far more difficult to sit down and write. Outlining and keeping notes and folders of information has been my process this time. I've tried to outline the story and major events chronologically, which helped me recover some lost memories and also helped me process what the major events are that I should be writing about. With this project, I had no idea where to start, so I started blogging and I started with the most memorable moment for me. From there I told stories, ranted, and just looked at the entire blog as a rough draft.

Hundreds of pages later, I've fleshed out the major events in detail. I've taken notes, done research, printed out relevant emails, copied pages from journals, etc.

 

This has been the most taxing project ever, but I'd never have gotten this far without all the outlining and sketching I've done.

 

Lisa

LOL The first time I saw the word "pantser" somewhere, I thought of the same thing! I was like, what in the world are they talking about? What's next, noogies? I swear, that term didn't come from me. I definitely would have picked something else to call it.

 

Jen Kirchner

Well there's also a lot to be said for pen on paper... Actually I just heard an interview with Jennifer Egan who said she writes longhand then uses computer as typewriter. There are benefits to migrating to a digital workflow, searches, keywords, organizing by chapters which can be shuffled about instantly, etc.

Seems that everyone finds what works best for them, often a mish-mash of methods :)

I'm going to have to look into Scrivener. It sounds intriguing, and a heck of a lot easier than my old-fashioned tools!